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SSBM/Ice Climbers

From SuperCombo Wiki


Introduction

They rank 8th on the tier list (in the B tier), highly accredited to the usage of Wobbling and Desynching and the fact that the fighter is literally "two-in-one", which helps the climbers rack up damage, combo, and KO opponents; this gives the Ice Climbers one of the best grab games in Melee. Additionally, good players can quickly rack up damage with the two, and they have good approach options on the ground, due to disjointed hitboxes and two decent projectiles. The two also have a very long and floaty wavedash, aiding their approach tremendously. The Ice Climbers, however, have a poor air game, and their floatiness causes them to be vulnerable to juggling and combos.

Strengths Weaknesses
  • Devastating Grab Game - While both Nana and Popo are still alive, the Ice Climbers are capable of dealing devastating amounts of damage through their hand-offs, which if performed correctly can potentially lead to very early kills
  • Strong Burst Movement - The Ice Climbers' superb wavedash allows for them to slide across the stage very quickly, and can help them secure punishes from very large distances, alongside allowing them to escape dangerous situations when in need
  • A supporting character - Nana, aside from being necessary for recovery, chaingrabs, and giving decent damage, helps in other ways. She can make attacks on her own, which mostly matters when you're getting grabbed. This makes Ice Climbers entirely immune to chaingrabs until Nana dies.
  • Big Hammers - Despite their small size, Ice Climbers have surprisingly large disjointed hitboxes on many attacks. Well-spaced moves are therefore very likely to beat out opponents' attacks.
  • Reliance On Secondary Climber - Once separated from the primary climber, the secondary climber is entirely controlled by an AI that tends to be stupid and often predictable. If the secondary climber is killed early, the character is significantly weakened with many of their strengths and techniques no longer being usable until the next stock.
  • Poor Diagonal Hitboxes - Ice Climber's moves that have diagonal hitboxes are generally rather poor. They often have bad range, bad active frames, bad startup, or a mix of these. This causes them to generally struggle to challenge many character's approach games directly as well as approach characters on platforms.
  • Bad Air Mobility - With both poor aerial drift and fall speed, Ice Climbers can become easy pray once launched, and can struggle to attack foes on high platforms.
SSBM Ice Climbers Portrait.png
Physics
Weight 88 (15th)
Fall Speed 1.6/Fast 2 (12th/21st)
Gravity 0.1 (12th)
Ground Movement
Walk Speed 0.95 (18th)
Initial Dash Speed 1.4 (8th)
Initial Dash Length 13f (3rd)
Run Speed 1.4 (8th)
Traction 0.035 (25th)
Jumping
Jumpsquat 3f (1st)
Jump Height Full 35.1/Short 10.5/Air 32.5 (6th/25th/5th)
Air Speed 0.7 (25th)
Air Acceleration 0.047 (21st)

"A" Moves Analysis

Note: A majority of the move summaries refer to the combined damage of the two climbers; one of the climber's attack is usually 1% less than the leader's. Total damage refers if both the climber's hammers connect, and they both usually do the moves in sync.

Ground moves

Normal
  • Neutral attack- Two hammer swings in front. 1-2% first hit (usually adds up to 3%), then both Climbers do 4% on the next hit, for a total of 11% damage.
  • Dash attack- Leap and swing hammers in front. The landing has some end lag, but both climber's hits add up to an impressive 17%, for a dash attack.
  • Side tilt- A similar swinging motion in front as their Neutral Attack, only slightly slower with more knockback and damage. 7% and 8%, adds up to 15% if both Climber's hits connect. Can be angled upwards or downwards without damage differences
  • Up tilt- The climbers twirl their hammers in a somewhat short-ranged but highly damaging way above themselves. Many hits, usually does around 18-21% damage if most or all hits connect.
  • Down tilt- A sluggish swing to the floor. One of the climber's less damaging moves even with both their damages combined; 4% then 5%, 9% total if both climbers connect.
Smash attacks
  • Side smash- Somewhat quickly brings their hammers up and brings them down. 14% and 12%, adds up to 26% uncharged; 19% and 17% fully, adding up to 36%. Great knockback.
  • Down smash- Sweep their hammers below them in a 360° motion; first hitting behind them and then in front. Fast but somewhat short ranged, good for tight spacing. 12% and 11%, 23% total uncharged; 17% and 14% fully, adding up to 31%. Good horizontal knockback.
  • Up smash- Swings their hammer in an rapid arc over their heads. 10% and 11%, 21% total uncharged; 15% and 13%, 28% total fully charged. Excellent killer at higher damages.
Other attacks
Note: Only one IC can grab the ledge at a time, so only one ledge attack is performed. The partner usually makes an additional jump to get back on stage, though.
  • Ledge attack- Brings him/herself up and swings his mallet in a similar way to their forward smash. 8% damage.
  • 100% ledge attack- Slowly gets up and thrusts his/her mallet forwards. 10% damage.
  • Floor attack- Gets up and spins their hammers. 6% for one IC.

Aerial attacks

  • Neutral aerial- Twirl around in the air. Short ranged, but good for air-spacing and following up with neutral aerial if predicted right. 8-15% damage.
  • Forward aerial- Hold their hammers up and bring them down in a similar fashion to their forward smash. Can meteor if sweetspotted. 10% and 10%, adds up to 20%.
  • Back aerial- Turns around and swings their hammers in a similar fashion to their forward tilt. 12% and 10%, 22% total.
  • Up aerial- Thrust their hammers above them like their up tilt, only with one hitbox per climber. Both do around 8-9% each, adding up to 17%.
  • Down aerial- They hold their mallets below them and fall downwards. Can be angled, has long duration and some landing lag (though L-cancelling helps). 7-9% per climber, totaling 17% damage. This attack has extremely low set knockback and therefore cannot KO grounded opponents at any percentage.

Grabs & throws

  • Pummel- The lead climber pummel the foe for 1-2% per pummel, whereas the player has some control over the partner while pummeling. The damage adds up quickly due to desynching.
  • Forward throw- Takes the foe and swings their mallets in a Bat-like way, launching the foe forward. 11% in two indiscernible hits.
  • Up throw- Bash the foe above themselves. Powerful, though it's power costs them combo follow ups, for a throw. 11% in two hits.
  • Down throw- Takes foe and slams them harshly into the ground. Only the lead Ice Climber attacks, doing only 6% damage, though the foe is usually knocked right in front of the IC, leading into many quick combos.
  • Back throw- Takes foe and flings them behind with one hand. 7% damage.

"B" Moves List

Move Analysis

  • Neutral B

The controlled Ice Climber summons a small stalagmite of ice and hits it with a hammer so that it slides off along the ground, damaging whatever it hits. This move is mimicked by the CPU Ice Climber if it is with the human-controlled one, so two shots at a time can be shot along the floor. Unfortunately, it shrinks in size as it slides, making long range Ice Shots undesirable.

Although this attack only does around 2% damage for each chunk of ice, it can be very useful in attacking and defending if used correctly. With both Climbers, you'll shoot out two Ice Shots. If used in mid-air, the Ice Shots fall fast until they hit the ground, and they travel very fast down slopes. If one gets reflected, the other can cancel it out. High damage opponents may be frozen by the ice blocks depending on the knockback they take from them, with heavier characters being frozen later. Using Ice Shot at very close range can catch enemies with both the ice blocks and the hammers.

  • Side B

Squal Hammer:The controlled Ice Climber spins around like a top and travels forward along the ground for a short moment, with the hammer extended so that opponents are harmed if they come into contact with the hammer. If the CPU-controlled Ice Climber is present, the pair will whirl around back-to-back together and the two hammers will make it twice as likely that the attack will connect with an opponent. Squall Hammer in Brawl.

Squall Hammer can be used as a recovery move. If the special move button is pressed repeatedly while the Ice Climber(s) is/are in their spinning animation, they will rise vertically in addition to their horizontal movement. The vertical boost is considerably greater when both Ice Climbers are present; however, given that Belay is next to useless as a lone Ice Climber, Squall Hammer should be used instead when only one Ice Climber remains. Unfortunately, in Brawl, using the Squall Hammer as a recovery move with a single Ice Climber is a bit hard, as the height gained is zero, however, it does get substantial horizontal distance. Using both Ice Climbers grants a good height, nonetheless, and doesn't risk separating them like Belay can.

  • Up B

Belay:It functions as a third jump, but only if the CPU-controlled Ice Climber is present. The controlled Ice Climber throws the CPU one up a short distance while the two are attached by a rope, and the CPU Ice Climber will then send the human one a long way upward by pulling on the rope, and both will enter the helpless state until they land, making them individually vulnerable until then. If this move is used to recover from falling off the edge of a stage, the CPU Ice Climber will likely fall to its doom while the human one will land on the stage safely.

Without the other Ice Climber alive or near enough in the air, the player merely does the motion for the belay, which will still grab the ledge when close enough, but gains very little altitude and leaves the Climber helpless to fall. A separated CPU Climber may also use the move alone to try and get back to their partner. Players typically use Squall Hammer-based recoveries when left with a single Climber.

A technique using this move (known as Bungie Jumping) allows a player to edge-hog for an extended period of time with invincibility frames that can be repeatedly attained. The technique also sets up to chaingrab any opponents who get past the edge-hog.

  • Down B

Blizzard:The controlled Ice Climber stays put on the ground and shoots out a stream of frigid air from the palm of its outstretched hand for about a second to damage opponents in front. This move is mimicked by the CPU Ice Climber if it is done grounded with the human-controlled one, and the CPU Ice Climber will shoot out Blizzard in the opposite direction while standing behind the back of the human Ice Climber.

If used in midair, the CPU Ice Climber's Blizzard will be used in the same direction as the human Ice Climber's, making it more powerful. This attack does ice damage and a good amount of hitstun when it connects with an opponent at a distance, and can freeze heavily damaged opponents, but the freeze effect does not last very long, especially if they are hit at longer range. Of course, this move also has more range than most of the Ice Climbers' melee attacks. This move can rack up to 18% damage if all hits connect.

Techniques

Desyncing is an Ice Climbers technique that involves separating the two climbers' animations and controlling them individually. This allows the player to perform an attack, move, jump, or wavedash with either Nana or Popo, whilst inputting a different command to the other Ice Climber.

The term "Desync" is typically not used to refer to Ice climbers grab techniques, despite them technically being such.

Continuous desyncs, involves repeatedly alternating actions with each climber in order to maintain a desync'd state. This can create a complicated patchwork of hitboxes for your opponent to navigate, but is also highly risky due to increasing the chances of the climbers being separated by a stray hit.


Match-ups

Serious Advantage Match-ups

Roy, Kirby, Pichu

Advantage Match-ups

Shiek, Pikachu, Mario, DK, Y.Link, Mew2, Yoshi, G&W, Ness, Bowser

Fair Match-ups

Falco, C.Falcon, Doc, Link, Luigi, Zelda

Disadvantage Match-ups

Fox, Puff, Marth, Ganon, Samus

Serious Disadvantage Match-ups

Peach

Advanced Frame Data

This table shows the frame data for all of Ice Climbers' non-special moves. Including shield advantage at different timings and cancels.

Shield Advantage
move start end lcancelledLandingLag autoCancelAfter iasa missedLcancelLandingLag totalFrames damage shieldstun bestShieldAdvantage lcancelledShieldAdvantage missedLcancelShieldAdvantage earlyHitAutoCancelledShieldAdvantage lateHitAutoCancelledShieldAdvantage earlyHitIASACancelledShieldAdvantage lateHitIASACancelledShieldAdvantage earlyHitTotalFramesShieldAdvantage lateHitTotalFramesShieldAdvantage
ftilt_mh 6 9 N\A N\A 28 N\A 31 8 5 -13 N\A N\A N\A N\A -16 -13 -20 -17
ftilt_mh 6 9 N\A N\A 28 N\A 31 8 5 -13 N\A N\A N\A N\A -16 -13 -20 -17
dtilt 8 11 N\A N\A 29 N\A 34 5 4 -13 N\A N\A N\A N\A -16 -13 -22 -19
dtilt 8 11 N\A N\A 29 N\A 34 5 4 -13 N\A N\A N\A N\A -16 -13 -22 -19
uair 6 9 16 26 30 32 39 9 6 -10 -10 -26 -18 -15 -17 -14 -27 -24
uair 6 9 16 26 30 32 39 9 6 -10 -10 -26 -18 -15 -17 -14 -27 -24
uair 10 23 16 26 30 32 39 7 5 -1 -11 -27 -15 -2 -14 -1 -24 -11
uair 10 23 16 26 30 32 39 7 5 -1 -11 -27 -15 -2 -14 -1 -24 -11
ftilt_l 6 9 N\A N\A 28 N\A 31 8 5 -13 N\A N\A N\A N\A -16 -13 -20 -17
ftilt_l 6 9 N\A N\A 28 N\A 31 8 5 -13 N\A N\A N\A N\A -16 -13 -20 -17
ftilt_l 29 30 N\A N\A 28 N\A 31 1 2 5 N\A N\A N\A N\A 4 5 0 1
ftilt_l 29 30 N\A N\A 28 N\A 31 1 2 5 N\A N\A N\A N\A 4 5 0 1
ftilt_h 6 9 N\A N\A 28 N\A 31 8 5 -13 N\A N\A N\A N\A -16 -13 -20 -17
ftilt_h 6 9 N\A N\A 28 N\A 31 8 5 -13 N\A N\A N\A N\A -16 -13 -20 -17
dashattack 11 12 N\A N\A 38 N\A 41 9 6 -19 N\A N\A N\A N\A -20 -19 -24 -23
dashattack 11 12 N\A N\A 38 N\A 41 9 6 -19 N\A N\A N\A N\A -20 -19 -24 -23
dair 3 52 12 57 64 25 65 9 6 -3 -6 -19 -52 -3 -54 -5 -56 -7
dair 3 52 12 57 64 25 65 9 6 -3 -6 -19 -52 -3 -54 -5 -56 -7
bair 8 11 10 18 36 20 39 12 7 -3 -3 -13 -7 -4 -20 -17 -24 -21
bair 8 11 10 18 36 20 39 11 6 -4 -4 -14 -8 -5 -21 -18 -25 -22
usmash 14 18 N\A N\A 44 N\A 49 11 6 -19 N\A N\A N\A N\A -23 -19 -29 -25
usmash 14 18 N\A N\A 44 N\A 49 11 6 -19 N\A N\A N\A N\A -23 -19 -29 -25
ftilt_ml 6 9 N\A N\A 28 N\A 31 8 5 -13 N\A N\A N\A N\A -16 -13 -20 -17
ftilt_ml 6 9 N\A N\A 28 N\A 31 8 5 -13 N\A N\A N\A N\A -16 -13 -20 -17
jab1 4 7 N\A N\A 16 N\A 29 2 2 -6 N\A N\A N\A N\A -9 -6 -23 -20
jab1 4 7 N\A N\A 16 N\A 29 2 2 -6 N\A N\A N\A N\A -9 -6 -23 -20
ftilt_m 6 9 N\A N\A 28 N\A 31 8 5 -13 N\A N\A N\A N\A -16 -13 -20 -17
ftilt_m 6 9 N\A N\A 28 N\A 31 8 5 -13 N\A N\A N\A N\A -16 -13 -20 -17
nair 6 23 10 29 46 20 49 8 5 -5 -5 -15 -22 -5 -34 -17 -38 -21
nair 6 23 10 29 46 20 49 8 5 -5 -5 -15 -22 -5 -34 -17 -38 -21
dsmash 6 11 N\A N\A 36 N\A 39 12 7 -17 N\A N\A N\A N\A -22 -17 -26 -21
dsmash 6 11 N\A N\A 36 N\A 39 12 7 -17 N\A N\A N\A N\A -22 -17 -26 -21
jab2 4 6 N\A N\A 18 N\A 29 4 3 -8 N\A N\A N\A N\A -10 -8 -22 -20
jab2 4 6 N\A N\A 18 N\A 29 4 3 -8 N\A N\A N\A N\A -10 -8 -22 -20
fair 19 22 10 23 55 20 59 11 6 1 -4 -14 -2 1 -29 -26 -34 -31
fair 19 22 10 23 55 20 59 10 6 1 -4 -14 -2 1 -29 -26 -34 -31
fair 19 22 10 23 55 20 59 9 6 1 -4 -14 -2 1 -29 -26 -34 -31
utilt 8 9 N\A N\A 42 N\A 49 1 2 -30 N\A N\A N\A N\A -31 -30 -39 -38
utilt 8 9 N\A N\A 42 N\A 49 1 2 -30 N\A N\A N\A N\A -31 -30 -39 -38
utilt 11 12 N\A N\A 42 N\A 49 1 2 -27 N\A N\A N\A N\A -28 -27 -36 -35
utilt 11 12 N\A N\A 42 N\A 49 1 2 -27 N\A N\A N\A N\A -28 -27 -36 -35
utilt 14 15 N\A N\A 42 N\A 49 1 2 -24 N\A N\A N\A N\A -25 -24 -33 -32
utilt 14 15 N\A N\A 42 N\A 49 1 2 -24 N\A N\A N\A N\A -25 -24 -33 -32
utilt 17 18 N\A N\A 42 N\A 49 1 2 -21 N\A N\A N\A N\A -22 -21 -30 -29
utilt 17 18 N\A N\A 42 N\A 49 1 2 -21 N\A N\A N\A N\A -22 -21 -30 -29
utilt 20 21 N\A N\A 42 N\A 49 1 2 -18 N\A N\A N\A N\A -19 -18 -27 -26
utilt 20 21 N\A N\A 42 N\A 49 1 2 -18 N\A N\A N\A N\A -19 -18 -27 -26
utilt 23 24 N\A N\A 42 N\A 49 1 2 -15 N\A N\A N\A N\A -16 -15 -24 -23
utilt 23 24 N\A N\A 42 N\A 49 1 2 -15 N\A N\A N\A N\A -16 -15 -24 -23
utilt 26 27 N\A N\A 42 N\A 49 1 2 -12 N\A N\A N\A N\A -13 -12 -21 -20
utilt 26 27 N\A N\A 42 N\A 49 1 2 -12 N\A N\A N\A N\A -13 -12 -21 -20
utilt 29 29 N\A N\A 42 N\A 49 7 5 -7 N\A N\A N\A N\A -7 -7 -15 -15
utilt 29 29 N\A N\A 42 N\A 49 7 5 -7 N\A N\A N\A N\A -7 -7 -15 -15
fsmash_m 13 14 N\A N\A 47 N\A 47 14 8 -24 N\A N\A N\A N\A -25 -24 -26 -25
fsmash_m 13 14 N\A N\A 47 N\A 47 10 6 -26 N\A N\A N\A N\A -27 -26 -28 -27

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